《長城》制作人：好萊塢和中國如何互相學習

The continuing courtship between Hollywood and China reached a new milestone last Friday with the release in China of “The Great Wall,” the much buzzed-about movie directed by Zhang Yimou and backed by Legendary Entertainment, Universal Pictures, Le Vision Pictures and China Film Group. With a budget of more than $150 million, the blockbuster epic, which features Matt Damon and Andy Lau fighting monsters on the iconic Great Wall, is the biggest co-production to date for the United States and China and probably the most expensive movie ever shot exclusively in China.

隨著影片《長城》上周五在中國上映，好萊塢和中國之間的持續(xù)示好達到一個新的里程碑。這部由張藝謀導演的備受關注的影片，由傳奇影業(yè)(Legendary Entertainment)、環(huán)球影業(yè)(Universal Pictures)、樂視影業(yè)和中國電影集團聯(lián)合出品。這部史詩巨片預算超1.5億美元，是迄今為止規(guī)模最大的中美合拍片，或許也是完全在中國取景的最貴的影片，其中有馬特·達蒙(Matt Damon)和劉德華在標志性的長城上大戰(zhàn)怪獸的場景。

Along with those attributes come high expectations. Many are looking to see whether the film can help Hollywood further penetrate the fast-growing Chinese film market while fulfilling China’s longstanding ambition to make a global cinematic hit. If it succeeds, industry analysts say this type of big-budget, cross-cultural movie could be a model for future co-productions between China and the United States, the world’s top two film markets.

隨之而來的是很高的期望。有許多人想知道這部影片是否能幫助好萊塢進一步滲透快速發(fā)展的中國電影市場，同時實現(xiàn)中國長久以來制作全球風靡影片的抱負。業(yè)內(nèi)分析人士表示，如果它獲得成功，這種高預算、跨文化的影片可能會成為中國和美國這兩個世界上最大的電影市場未來合作拍片的一種模式。

That will not become clear until after Feb. 17, when the film is released in the United States. In an interview, Peter Loehr, chief executive of Legendary East, the China subsidiary of Legendary Entertainment, and one of the movie’s producers, discussed what Hollywood and China could learn from each other and why he rejected accusations of the film’s “whitewashing” in the casting of Mr. Damon.

這些問題要得到答案，還得等到影片于2月17日在美國上映之后。在下面的采訪中，這部影片的制片人之一、傳奇影業(yè)中國子公司傳奇東方(Legendary East)的首席執(zhí)行官羅異(Peter Loehr)探討了好萊塢和中國可以從彼此身上學些什么，以及他為什么反對外界指責這部影片選達蒙主演是在“洗白”。

How did you get involved in making this film?

你是如何參與到這部電影的制作中來的?

I got involved about four years ago when I joined Legendary. The movie was about to shoot, and we were looking at the budget and the story. The story seemed pretty cliché and not exactly what we wanted to do, and we weren’t able to hit a budget number that we wanted to hit. So we hit a pause button, and we started to rework the script. Then we showed it to Zhang Yimou. He was the first and the only person we showed it to.

我是在4年前加入傳奇時參與進來的。當時這部電影即將開拍，我們正仔細考量預算和故事。故事似乎很老套，和我們想要拍的不太一樣，預算也無法達到我們想要達到的數(shù)字。因此我們按下了暫停鍵，開始修改劇本。然后我們把劇本拿給張藝謀看。他當時是第一個也是唯一一個看到我們的劇本的人。

At one point did it become clear that “The Great Wall” was going to be a kind of test for future big-budget Hollywood-China co-productions?

在某個時刻，事情是不是變得很清楚，《長城》將成為好萊塢與中國以后合拍大預算影片的某種試金石?

We didn’t set out to do that. It happened along the way. We thought, there’s been a perfect storm of events that allow us to actually make this movie. The Chinese market is now big enough that we can return a big part of the box office on this movie and we can bring in major Chinese partners at significant investments. Before, Chinese investors would say, “Oh, we’ll put in $5 million.” This time our partners are in for 30 percent of this movie. So we thought, “Maybe we can make a real Chinese story and maybe the world is ready for this in a way they weren’t before. Plus Zhang Yimou is amazing, and great actors and talented people want to work with him. Let’s just go for it.”

我們并非從一開始就作此打算。它是一路摸索的產(chǎn)物。我們認為，由一系列因素構成的完美風暴，讓我們具有了拍這部電影的現(xiàn)實條件。中國市場現(xiàn)在足夠大，因此這部電影能為我們帶來很高的票房回報，而且我們可以在進行重大投資時引進大手筆的中方合作伙伴。以前，中國投資者會說，“哦，我們會投500萬美元”。而這一次，我們的合作伙伴分擔了這部電影30%的投資。于是我們覺得，“或許我們可以拍一個真正的中國故事，或許這個世界與以前不同，已經(jīng)為此做好了準備。再加上張藝謀非常了不起，偉大的演員和有天分的人想要跟他合作。”那我們就放手去做吧。

After the first trailer came out, there was a lot of backlash from people including Constance Wu of “Fresh Off the Boat,” who criticized the movie as “whitewashing” for casting a white actor — Mr. Damon — as the main hero.

第一支預告片出來后，遭到了很多人的強烈反對，包括出演過《初來乍到》(Fresh Off the Boat)的吳恬敏(Constance Wu)。她指責這部電影讓一個白人演員，即達蒙演主角是在“洗白”。

The casting of the movie was entirely organic. This is the way the screenplay was written. It’s not like that role was written as a Chinese person. It’s a plot point that this guy has to show up and do these things. He drives the plot.

電影的選角和劇本完全統(tǒng)一。劇本就是這么寫的。并非劇本里寫的這個角色是中國人。此人不得不站出來做這些事情，這是情節(jié)點之一。他推動著故事情節(jié)的發(fā)展。

It’s interesting that so far, we haven’t really seen any of the same discussions of race in this movie in the Chinese media. It seems to be a very specifically American issue.

有意思的是，迄今為止我們還沒真正看到中國媒體對影片中的種族問題進行任何討論。這似乎是一個非常具有美國特色的問題。

With this movie, Zhang Yimou and I set out to defy every stereotype that you can think of. All the roles you constantly see Chinese actors in are not in this movie. There is no mafia guy, there is no triad guy, there is no prostitute. There is none of that. And there’s no stupid, phony, fake love story happening at the edge of the movie as the world is about to end.

在這部電影中，張藝謀和我有意避開你能想到的一切成見。影片中沒有你看到的華人演員始終在演的那些角色。沒有黑幫分子、沒有三合會成員、沒有妓女。這些都沒有。在世界末日即將到來時，影片的邊緣也沒有出現(xiàn)任何愚蠢、虛偽、造作的愛情故事。

I think when people see the movie they’ll think, “Wow, this is a big step in the right direction, and this is a true collaboration between actors in both countries and they at least have equal footing.”

我想，人們在觀影時會想，“哇，這是朝正確的方向邁出的一大步，這是兩國演員之間真正的合作，他們至少在地位上是平等的。”

What about the movie do you think will appeal to American moviegoers? 你認為影片的哪些方面會吸引美國觀眾?

It’s a classic adventure story with a great group of heroes. Certainly there’s never been a movie shot on the Great Wall before, especially one in which you’re fending off monsters. Plus it’s a huge action canvas that works to Zhang Yimou’s strengths. Zhang Yimou was in Los Angeles for postproduction, and he played with the 3-D effects for eight months. So there are things you really haven’t seen before, like smoke coming out of the screen. He took things that he would use in a classic Zhang Yimou art film and melded it into a really commercial format in a really interesting way.

這是一個典型的冒險故事，有一群很棒的英雄。當然以前從來沒有過以長城為主題的電影，尤其是抵御怪物的那種。此外，這是一幅巨型動作油畫，是張藝謀的長項。為了后期制作，張藝謀親自前往洛杉磯，并在3D效果上下了八個月的功夫。因此，影片有一些你以前真的沒見過的東西，比如從屏幕上冒出來的煙霧。他帶來了自己會在典型的張氏文藝片里使用的東西，并用一種真的很有意思的方式讓它融入非常商業(yè)化的影片。

Based on this experience, what do you think American studios need to learn from Chinese studios and vice versa?

基于這些體驗，你認為美中兩國的電影制片公司分別需要從對方身上學習什么?

In general the U.S. system of everybody being super independent and each department head having their own little fiefdom and only presenting finished work versus the Chinese system where everyone wants to ask the director every single little detail — I think there’s probably a middle ground to be found somewhere there.

總的來說，美國的制度是所有人都超級獨立，各部門的領導都有自己負責的小領域，只負責交出完成以后的作品，而中國的制度是，每一個小細節(jié)所有人都想問導演，我覺得可能可以在兩者之間找到一個中間地帶。

What about on the more conceptual level?

在和觀念更相關的層面呢?

I think we need to probably start thinking less about China and how to make a good movie that has Chinese elements. When I worked at C.A.A. [Creative Artists Agency], I saw so many scripts, and everyone had a China idea and said, let’s do a remake of this and a remake of that. At the time, “The Great Wall” was the first project I saw that I thought, “Wow, this makes total sense. That’s a good story. I understand that guy, I actually like that guy, and I understand why the people he meets up with are initially very unwelcoming to him and gradually warm to him as he changes and learns more about himself.”

我覺得我們可能需要開始減少對中國，以及如何制作一部有中國元素的好電影的考慮。在創(chuàng)新藝人經(jīng)紀公司(Creative Artists Agency，簡稱CAA)工作的時候，我看到過太多的劇本，人人都有一個和中國有關的想法，說咱們翻拍這個，翻拍那個吧。當時，看到《長城》后我覺得，“哇，這非常有意義。這是個好故事。我理解這個角色，實際上我喜歡這個角色。我理解為什么見到他的人最初非常不歡迎他，但在他改變自己，對自己有了更多的了解后逐漸對他熱情起來。”它是我看到后生出這種想法的第一個項目。

How does the movie stand out from past Hollywood-China co-productions?

這部影片和過去的好萊塢與中國的合拍片有何不同?

We feel like this is one of the first true co-productions. It wasn’t coming to China just for finance or for access to the market. It was a story that organically took place here that organically had mixed actors, and it’s something that U.S. studios and Chinese investors sparked to in the same way and invested in accordingly. It’s basically what a co-production is supposed to be. The Chinese side is supposed to be 30 percent, but on a film of this scale, the Chinese side being 30 percent is unheard-of. So it must mean something. They must have really liked it. They must not think it’s whitewashing or pandering or anything like that. So I guess, for me, being able to attract a filmmaker like Zhang Yimou and being able to attract a significant Chinese investment says something about the D.N.A. of this movie.

我們感覺這是第一批真正的合拍片之一。它不僅僅是為了資金或是為了進入這個市場而來到中國。故事本來就發(fā)生在這里，本來就有不同國家的演員。它是美國電影制作公司和中國投資者同樣喜歡，并相應地進行投資的一個東西。從根本上來說合拍片就應該是這樣。中方應該占30%，但在這種規(guī)模的電影中，中方占30%的情況聞所未聞。因此，這肯定有一定的含義。他們肯定是真的喜歡它。他們肯定不認為這是洗白或迎合或任何類似的想法。所以我猜，在我看來，能夠吸引到像張藝謀這樣的電影制作人，能夠吸引到巨額的中方投資，這就說明了這部電影的DNA。