在白宮與特朗普面對(duì)面

Shortly after 3.30pm, we are summoned into the Oval Office. The president is sitting behind the Resolute Desk, where Harry Truman planted the sign “The Buck Stops Here.” Three aides flank Mr Trump. He forgoes the handshakes and gestures to his three FT visitors to sit down.

下午三點(diǎn)半剛過(guò)，我們被叫進(jìn)橢圓形辦公室。特朗普總統(tǒng)正坐在“堅(jiān)毅桌”后面，昔日哈里•杜魯門(Harry Truman)在這間辦公室里時(shí)，他的桌子上擺著一塊刻有“推卸責(zé)任止于此”(The Buck Stops Here)的牌子。三名助手站在特朗普身邊。他跳過(guò)了握手環(huán)節(jié)，直接示意來(lái)自英國(guó)《金融時(shí)報(bào)》的三名訪客就座。

“You folks want a little something to drink?” the president inquires, as an aide brings a Coca-Cola. I order the same, with ice. The president pushes a red button on the desk. “We are going to get it for you. It’s just sorted . . . So, go ahead.”

“各位想喝點(diǎn)什么?”總統(tǒng)問(wèn)道，這時(shí)一名助手端來(lái)一杯可口可樂(lè)。我也要了可樂(lè)，加冰的。總統(tǒng)按下桌上的一個(gè)紅色按鈕。“一會(huì)兒給你拿上來(lái)，剛剛弄好……那么，開(kāi)始吧。”

And so began one of the most fascinating interviews I have conducted during my 32-year career at the FT. Mr Trump was charming, at times combative, always ready to shoot from the lip.

我供職英國(guó)《金融時(shí)報(bào)》32年中做過(guò)的最有趣的采訪之一就這樣開(kāi)始了。特朗普先生富有魅力，有時(shí)顯得好斗，總是想說(shuō)什么就說(shuō)什么。

Overall, he showed himself to be alert, attentive and far removed from the cartoon character depicted on social media and television (not helped, it has to be said, by his own addiction to Twitter).

總的來(lái)說(shuō)，他表現(xiàn)得機(jī)警、專心致志，并且迥異于社交媒體和電視上描繪的那個(gè)卡通人物式形象(老實(shí)說(shuō)，他這么愛(ài)上Twitter對(duì)糾正這一形象也沒(méi)起什么好作用)。

Here are my main impressions, based on the 25-minute interview in the Oval Office and several other conversations with Mr Trump’s top team at the White House.

根據(jù)在橢圓形辦公室所做的25分鐘的采訪，以及在白宮與特朗普高層團(tuán)隊(duì)的另外幾場(chǎng)對(duì)話，我得出以下幾點(diǎn)主要印象：

1. Mr Trump may at times be thin-skinned but in the end it all comes down to business. The president, an FT subscriber, knows very well that we are not his greatest fans. He made his views clear at the outset (“You lost, I won”).

1.特朗普有時(shí)或許很敏感，但他終歸還是以正事為重。作為英國(guó)《金融時(shí)報(bào)》的訂戶，他很清楚我們不是他的鐵桿粉絲。他一開(kāi)始就表明了態(tài)度(“你們輸了，我贏了”)。

As his aides made even clearer, he decided to talk to the FT because it offered his administration a medium through which to speak to an influential global audience, and because he could expect a fair crack of the whip. Or as Potus himself might put it: no fake news in the FT!

他的助手們更明白地表示，他決定跟英國(guó)《金融時(shí)報(bào)》對(duì)話，是因?yàn)檫@為他的政府提供了向全世界一群有影響力的讀者喊話的媒介，還因?yàn)樗梢灶A(yù)料會(huì)獲得公平的機(jī)會(huì)。用總統(tǒng)本人的話來(lái)說(shuō)或許是：英國(guó)《金融時(shí)報(bào)》上面沒(méi)有假新聞!

2. Mr Trump delights in the unconventional. His gruff manner and his physical presence are calculated to destabilise and intimidate. These are the means to gain leverage before delivering the (often outrageous) opening gambit ahead of a negotiation. As a top Wall Street banker who has known Mr Trump for three decades, says: “Trump will ask for 100 per cent and then immediately start retreating. He will then see where his opponent settles. It’s a form of price discovery.”

2.特朗普以打破傳統(tǒng)為樂(lè)。他粗魯?shù)膽B(tài)度和他的儀表都是有意為之的，為了給人造成沖擊、使人心生畏懼。這些是為了獲得優(yōu)勢(shì)的手段，然后他就會(huì)實(shí)施談判前的開(kāi)局策略(這些策略往往有些出格)。正如一位認(rèn)識(shí)特朗普30年的華爾街頂尖銀行家所說(shuō)的：“特朗普會(huì)要求得到整塊蛋糕，然后馬上開(kāi)始后退。這樣他就會(huì)看到對(duì)手能接受的底線在哪里。這是探知價(jià)格的一種方式。”

3. The power structure in the Trump administration is more like a medieval court than a conventional US presidency. There are powerful factions, the family and the irascible Emperor. Let’s begin with the factions. While fluid and tactical, they roughly divide between the realists led by Jared Kushner, the president’s influential son-in-law, Gary Cohn, former number two at Goldman Sachs and now head of the National Economic Council, and Wilbur Ross, the private equity billionaire turned commerce secretary; the other camp is led by Steve Bannon, the economist nationalist, ideological firebrand, and the political brain behind the president.

3.特朗普政府的權(quán)力架構(gòu)更像是一個(gè)中世紀(jì)宮廷，而不是傳統(tǒng)的美國(guó)總統(tǒng)制度。這里面包括強(qiáng)大的派系、王室和脾氣暴躁的皇帝。讓我們從派系開(kāi)始吧。盡管派系并不穩(wěn)定、受到策略性因素左右，但這套架構(gòu)內(nèi)部現(xiàn)在大致分為兩派，一派是務(wù)實(shí)主義者，領(lǐng)導(dǎo)者有特朗普頗有影響力的女婿賈里德•庫(kù)什納(Jared Kushner)，前高盛(Goldman Sachs)總裁、現(xiàn)任國(guó)家經(jīng)濟(jì)委員會(huì)(National Economic Council)主席的加里•科恩(Gary Cohn)和私募行業(yè)億萬(wàn)富翁、美國(guó)商務(wù)部長(zhǎng)威爾伯•羅斯(Wilbur Ross);另一派系的領(lǐng)導(dǎo)者是史蒂夫•班農(nóng)(Steve Bannon)，他是經(jīng)濟(jì)學(xué)家民族主義者、意識(shí)形態(tài)煽動(dòng)者，也是特朗普的政治智囊。

In this structure, Mr Kushner is perhaps more influential than Rex Tillerson, secretary of state; Mr Cohn is arguably more important than Steve Mnuchin, the ex Goldman executive who is now Treasury secretary; and Mr Bannon is more powerful than Reince Priebus who nominally occupies the most important post as White House chief of staff.

在這套架構(gòu)中，庫(kù)什納的影響力或許超過(guò)美國(guó)國(guó)務(wù)卿雷克斯•蒂勒森(Rex Tillerson);科恩的重要性或許超過(guò)前高盛高管、現(xiàn)任美國(guó)財(cái)政部長(zhǎng)的史蒂文•姆努欽(Steven Mnuchin);班農(nóng)的權(quán)力超過(guò)萊因斯•普瑞巴斯(Reince Priebus)，從名義上來(lái)說(shuō)，后者擔(dān)任最重要的職位——白宮幕僚長(zhǎng)。

4. Mr Trump likes to cast himself as a populist in the mould of Andrew Jackson who served two terms as president between 1828 and 1836. (A newly installed portrait of Old Hickory hangs on the wall to the left of his desk). In truth Jackson and Trump share little in common beyond a Scots-Irish heritage. Jackson was no plutocrat; he was a war hero (he helped to defeat the British in 1812) and he served as a judge, state governor as well as US congressman and senator. Mr Trump is the first American president to have no government experience, in the military, Congress or statehouse. He has changed party allegiance five times. Rhetorically he is a populist, but in reality he is more of an opportunist, albeit a talented one. He saw off two political dynasties (Bush and Clinton) to claim the highest office in the land, and he remains aggressively proud of his achievement.

4.特朗普喜歡把自己定位為安德魯•杰克遜(Andrew Jackson)那樣的民粹主義者，后者曾在1828年至1836年擔(dān)任兩任美國(guó)總統(tǒng)。(特朗普辦公桌左邊的墻上新掛上了一副“老山核桃”(Old Hickory，杰克遜總統(tǒng)的綽號(hào)——譯者注)的畫像)。實(shí)際上，除了蘇格蘭-愛(ài)爾蘭血統(tǒng)，杰克遜和特朗普幾乎沒(méi)有什么共同點(diǎn)。杰克遜算不上富豪;他曾是一位戰(zhàn)爭(zhēng)英雄(在1812年戰(zhàn)爭(zhēng)中立下戰(zhàn)功)，擔(dān)任過(guò)法官、州長(zhǎng)以及美國(guó)眾議員和參議員。特朗普是首位毫無(wú)政府經(jīng)驗(yàn)的美國(guó)總統(tǒng)，沒(méi)在軍隊(duì)、國(guó)會(huì)或州議會(huì)中待過(guò)。他曾5次更換黨派。他言論上是民粹主義者，但實(shí)際上他更像是機(jī)會(huì)主義者——盡管是天才的機(jī)會(huì)主義者。他擊敗了來(lái)自布什和克林頓兩個(gè)政治王朝的候選人登上總統(tǒng)之位，他仍對(duì)自己的成就感到非常自豪。

5. Mr Trump’s aides love to cast him as “outside the system”, the tycoon who is fearless in the face of the establishment, media elites, and relentlessly hostile to all opponents, whether Democrat or, latterly, the rightwing Freedom Caucus that torpedoed his efforts to repeal Obamacare. The question is how this approach can work in the system of checks and balances in the US Constitution. Mr Trump has already come undone with his executive orders on immigration which have been overturned in the courts. Despite Republican majorities in the House of Representatives and Senate, he has yet to pass major legislation, though he insists plans for a major tax reform are under way.

5.特朗普的助手喜歡把他塑造為“體制外人士”，面對(duì)建制派、媒體精英無(wú)所畏懼的富豪，對(duì)所有反對(duì)者表現(xiàn)出無(wú)情的敵意——不管是民主黨人、還是最近葬送了他廢除“奧巴馬醫(yī)改”(Obamacare)努力的右翼“自由黨團(tuán)”(Freedom Caucus)。問(wèn)題是這種風(fēng)格如何能在美國(guó)憲法的制衡體系中玩得轉(zhuǎn)。特朗普已經(jīng)在有關(guān)移民的行政命令上受挫——他的行政命令遭到了法庭的推翻。盡管共和黨在眾議院和參議院占據(jù)多數(shù)席位，但他尚未通過(guò)重大法案——盡管他堅(jiān)稱大規(guī)模稅賦改革計(jì)劃正在進(jìn)行中。

6. Finally, there are wild cards, notably the ongoing congressional and FBI investigations into ties between his campaign and the Russian government. There is also the no small matter of his own business interests in real estate and the Trump brand name. Keeping them separate from official business — especially when foreign governments are desperate to ingratiate themselves with a newly assertive America — will not be an easy task.

6.最后，還存在一些未知因素，特別是目前國(guó)會(huì)和聯(lián)邦調(diào)查局(FBI)正對(duì)特朗普競(jìng)選團(tuán)隊(duì)與俄羅斯政府之間的關(guān)系進(jìn)行的調(diào)查。還有有關(guān)他自己在房地產(chǎn)行業(yè)的商業(yè)利益和特朗普品牌名稱的問(wèn)題，這些都不是小事。把這些與公務(wù)分離(特別是在外國(guó)政府急于討好新近變得強(qiáng)硬的美國(guó)的情況下)并非易事。

For the moment, however, Mr Trump is counting on improving business confidence, a rise in the Dow, and his own charisma to show that he is indeed making America great again. Aides talk wistfully about parallels with Ronald Reagan’s first term. That feels like a stretch.

然而，就目前而言，特朗普正指望通過(guò)商業(yè)信心改善、道瓊斯指數(shù)(Dow)上漲以及他本人的超凡魅力來(lái)證明，他確實(shí)正讓美國(guó)再次變得偉大。助手們充滿希望地談?wù)撍c首任任期的羅納德•里根(Ronald Reagan)的相似之處。這感覺(jué)有點(diǎn)牽強(qiáng)。

But, as the FT concluded in its first take on the Trump interview, there are tentative signs that there is more method in the madness than critics suspect.

然而，正如英國(guó)《金融時(shí)報(bào)》在上一篇特朗普專訪稿中總結(jié)的那樣，初步跡象表明，在瘋狂背后，特朗普其實(shí)比批評(píng)者所認(rèn)為的更有理性。